Category: Language and Culture
Do you think blind have their own culture. I do, We speak our own language, like blindy sighted people and and many others I have heard from blind people We also do things different then other like the we cook, reading ,cleaning,of corse are the same too.
I also think the zone is apart of the culture
I would think so in a way. For instance, Braille (and even other tactile systems such as Moon and Fishburne) are not the same as print, and we also have our own tools for writing. We also have our own terms that usually aren’t familiar to other people such as “JAWS” and sometimes “braille”, as well as the names of equipment and sometimes other terms that are unique to blind people. I think that alone could be considered like the blind culture. *smile*
If you ask google for a definition, one of the myriad definitions you get is:
"• learned behavior of people, which includes their belief systems and languages, their social relationships, their institutions and organizations, and their
material goods - food, clothing, buildings, tools, and machines."
nde.learningoptions.net/standards/standss/geocont/geogloss.html
Hey folks I think they are talking about us. Strictly speaking, we are probably part of a subculture in our own various societies (i.e. the American culture) etc. rather than a fully developed culture, but that's nit picking and I won't belabor the point.
I don't know about you, but I feel more comfortable talking to other blind people even though we may spend little time talking about the things that make us different. I feel comfortable because I don't have to explain "watching tv" etc. I just say it and go on.
This is a good topic, and I am anxious to see what others think about this subject.
Thanks,
Bob
I honestly, can see why blind people have a lot in common. The issues we deal with on a daily basis are similar, sharing knowledge about technoology techniques and inventive ways of dealing with every-day things without sight is useful. But, personally, that's as far as I like to go. I do not prefer talking to blind people over sighted. Most of my friends are sighted (not out of choice, it just so happens), I find a lot of blind people spend just way too much time talking about their blindness. Blindness does not define who I am, it's just a bit of a nuisance at times and forces me to do certain things differently, I don't think it affects my personality or hobbies all that terribly much and I "don't see" the point of talking to a blind person, just because he/she is blind. I talk to people because I find them interesting, charming, intelligent or just fun, whether they are blind, migits, trolls or all of the above (although how that is possible I don't nkow) is of no consequence to me.
I prefer to talk to blind people like myself. All though I am now in Mainstream college and how it is tough. I have class room support workers but it is stil tough. But that is best they can do. I don't know what I would do with out support. yes in some ways the blind have there own culture, for example using braille, speech packages for the computer and of course having guide dogs or white canes. My mum some times says to me how I would be different if I had my sight that is personalty wise. Michelle
I wouldnt class the paraphernalia of blindness as culture, its hardly limited to that. I enjoy spending time with my blind and sighted friends, it's not a problem who I socialise with, I'd hate to get to the point where I could only relate to my blind friends.
Hmm, interesting. Well according to Bob's definition, I guess we're sort of a culture but not quite. I mean, we have institutions that kind of represent us, such as NFB and ACB, and brille is kind of referred to as a different language, but still. As Goblin and others have said, it would be weird to limit ourselves to just our blind friends, at least for me. So we have some things in common in the way we do things, but that doesn't limit us to being together...because that makes us sound like if you're a blind person you are expected to know other blind people or something, which isn't true.
I think of us more as a subculture than a culture able to stand on our own. Yes, I'm blind. However, I'm also an American, a Catholic, a male... those things are as much a part of my culture as my blindness. I have more blind friends than sighted friends, but I'll spend just as much time and have as many interesting conversations with my sighted friends as with my blind friends. I just happen to feel closer to my online friends for some reason, and most of them happen to be blind. The online/offline closeness is a topic for another post, and something I may bring up later.
Peace,
-John
I don't think that blind people have a culture, nor should we proclame ourselves as having one. We come from all different backgrounds and have many different interests, the only thing connecting us being a certain disfunction in the seeing department. I know why blind people find it easier to relate just to blin people, because in the mainstream, our acceptance is not always a given, and so people decide not to socialise with sighted people for this reason. But we all live in one place, the world and personally I think it's time people realised, blind or sighted, we are no different and compartmentalising us, saying we have this unique culture or subculture, will only serve to bring us further away, not closer to, that unity with the rest of the world that I am sure we all truly desire. Cmon people.
Hell no, I don't think we have a true culture. I talk to very few blind people, only those who can meet my standards. I don't seek out blind people, it just happens sometimes. I make it a point to socialize with sited people, hang out with them etc etc. Sure you have to answer a few questions, but it's a sited world so I'm going to adapt and assimilate as well as I can to this world so I can be a successful contributing member of society.
To Monkeydoo,
are you always that circumloquacious?
circumloquacious. I never heard this word before.
What does it mean?
I personally wouldn't like a blind calture.
I agree with the others who say that we should mix with sited people more and not making blind clicks.
I like the idea of the blind subculture. Also, in the end, like it or not, it's up to the individual what groups they socialize with and who they don't. It's up to comfort level, how much they feel htey ahve in common with folks, and just who and what they find fascinating. I'm not going to hang with either blind or sighted folk to make a political statement, and in the end it's up to me only.
Hi!!! I agree with John in that I view blind people as being a part of a subculture within our societies at large or maybe it'd be more accurate to say subgroup. I feel like the deaf community has a really developed cultural idea of themselves whereas we have a lot in common as blind people with regards to our disability, it is sometimes easier to relate to blind people on certain issues but I, too, have more sighted friends just because that's how it happened, not by choice, but I would socialize and befriend anyone, blind, sighted, or whatever.
Also, on the topic of Braille, In may be wrong in this (feel free to correct me!!) but I feel that Braille is more of an alternative system for reading and writing a given language--we have French Braille, for example, along with English, Spanish, Chinese, ETC, ETC. rather than a language of its own. Just my two cents!
I do think there is a blind subculture; this is site is a prime example. And sometimes I've seen some sighted people enter and participate in the blind culture. A blind friend of mine once mentioned how they had their blind friends, and their sighted friends, and how they didn't really intermingle. I have several of both, and it's fluctuated throughout my life the number that has been higher. However, when it comes down to it, we all are just people.
When I was in high school a lecturer said to me it is 50 50 between blind and sighted people. This was a blind school. My sighted friends used to run away because they didn't know how to treat a blind person. I find it easier to make friends over the net, most of them are blind but I have some that are sighted. But when I was younger I used to be frightened of sighted and partially sighted people because I thought they were more bossy and thought they could do better than a totally blind person. Well of course they can because they have more sight. Michelle
Michelle I felt the same but in time I became seriously pissed off with myself and used the fear and resentment to push myself and achieve.The sighted are not better than you, they cant handle wearing a feckin blindfold for ten minutes, without losing the plot.
I personally think that although we have things that are unique to the blind community like braille, adaptive technology etc, I don't feel as though we are a culture, really, a subculture, perhaps, but not a culture. I believe that the term 'culture' negates all the other 'cultures' and nationalities, all the other societies we as individuals are a part of. For instance, I am blind, I'm a journalist, have been a university student, am a writer, etc, they are a no lesser part than my blindness. In essence, although i it is a part of our identity, it doesn't set us apart in regards to our personality.
Oh dear! that is a very interesting topic, and i will try to be short in my answer. I have many friends who are blind, and many friends who are sighted, and this on or off line. It is true that many blind people are stying among themselves because they have had bad experiences with the sighted ones. And i don't criticise at all.
However, I will here with Mat had said above. There isn't a culture. I mean i don't see blind people as a culture either, but, and i don't say it is the case of any zoner, but sometimes, sighted people can be uninformed and not knowing what to do, will ten to shun us more.
I have seen a topic which i believe was posted by Austin's angel about questions that were asked to blind people.
Some show no less than stupidity, others show that they are uninformed. It is not always easy to be included. Yet we must, and we will no longer be a group that is considered different. This doesn't mean that we must not be together in a ploace like this one and exchange what we exchange. I mean that it is also upto us to meet the sighted half way. At least those who will do the same. Then we will no longer feel like we are a culture or a subculture, but part of the mainstream population, with just the difference that we can't see. Sorry, i believe i was a bit long here. Cheers. John
I'd have to say we are.
Hmm, I'm on the fence about this one. In some ways I think our high tech devices have isolated us. I see similar interests just here at the zone. for many of us life revolves around books, the computer and the telephone. We have barriers to cross to meet the sighted on their terms and it isn't always easy. I don't think we should identify ourselves as a culture like others have said here it puts up yet another wall. In the light of the fact that we live in a melting pot can we say that there is an American culture. I for one have been looking for a cultural niche that I the white middle class housewife have little right to based on current thinking about minority cultures. I'm an American first but I'd like to call on my roots when needed and not feel ashamed. For that matter I guess I culture dabble, I have some blind friends annd some sighted ones. It's pretty even down the line and I like it that way.I accept my strangeness as a self-made hillbilly Irish housewife who used all the fear and resentment and worry to build a life for myself and maybe leave a few behind me.
a lot of my friends are blind. We never though talk about our blindness.
Interesting ablindgibsongirls post.
I honestly don't know what nitch I belong in. American possibly and white, but those are kind of a given. I see myself as more an outsider and a square peg and self-styled eccentric and self-styled geek, although I'm not a computer geek. Before it was cool to be called geek, people described me as geeky or nerdy or just a loser. Dunno what I lost, but at this point I'm pretty happy being me, although I always see myself as the outsider. I'm a realist when it's preferred to be an idealist. I'm an introvert when it is preferred to be extroverted. I identify as agnostic when it seems many blind folks who are vocal about their spiritual path at all identify as Christian. I'm liberal when it seems you're more accepted if you are all about being conservative and holding traditional values. I'm just a nonconformist, in the sense that I'm not into being a part of the big massive herd mentality, even though you still conform to something when you're a nonconformist according to some.
I guess some sighte people think it is strange when we talk about "watching" tv, because when they talk to me, they sometimes say "listening" o something on the tv or ask me if I like listening to the tv. I just say that like watching tv, even though I obviously can't see it, because it's just something that you say.
Oh, what a thought provoking topic. And, in a way, rather amusing. I definitely think it's a blind thing to try and classify ourselves. Why are we so worried about what we are, and completely obliviously ignorant of who we are? To those who say they wouldn't go out of their way to seek out the company of other blind people, may I ask a question? Why do you frequent the Zone, a specifically blind community website? I find that interesting. Yes, I can see the replies already regarding the exchanging of info, but, the thing is, you read this board, and this isn't exactly important technical info or anything along those lines.
I can understand why people prefer to speak with other blind people. It gets so tiresome explaining to sighted friends about small things, ie, how you read books/navigate a busy town during Christmas shopping. However, that's not to say that's always the case. When you get to know somebody, that no longer is an issue. I reckon though that most blind people feel more comfortable with other blind friends, as there is no pressure to be, yes, i'm gonna say it, normal. But, for me anyhow, once I get to know a person really well, it doesn't matter whether they're blind or sighted. I definitely think that, like it or not, we are a subculture, but then, so are DJs and Startrekkers and Dungeons and Dragons players. Is it really such a big thing?
FM
As someone who's taken courses in Sociology (I have a BA in it) and various types of Anthropology (my major) including cultural, I found this topic very interesting. I definitely believe that we as blind people share a subculture. Personally, I have a mixed bag of blind and sighted friends and like it that way, though I mostly grew up around the sighted. It's only recently that I really started making blind friends. I wouldn't talk to someone just because they're blind or go out of my way to seek out other blind people unless I had to ask some technical questions or, as with the zone, unless a friend told me I should try out this place and I figured it's free and there's nothing to lose. . To funky monkey, I'd definitely be on several regular irc servers if I could find ones that interested me enough and that worked with IAMC. I usually reserve my cultural attachments to Greeks and those of Hellenic descent. I think Godzilla--On-Toast made some very good points in post 15 about that. But even there, I'l make exceptions. If I like you I like you and if I don't I don't, regardless culture or subculture. ablindgibsongirl also said a few interesting things in post 23. I agree that many blind people lose themselves in books and especially the net. Alot of blind people I know are totally into books, but for me, it's music and the net, so I guess they're about the same. I could give myself alot of labels, though I'm pretty comfortable in my nitch as a Greek patriot and Hellenic Polytheist who adores rebetika and cooking and who has a few other hobbies as well. As for explaining things to my sighted friends, I don't find it tiring, though I do find it annoying wwhen people say feel for it instead of look for it and did you listen to that tv show last night instead of watch.
However, I have seen a few things that many blind people seem to share. The visual ones were told to me and some I noticed. I'm just writing the list here, and will go more into detail in another post or thread if you wish. Remember, not all blind people have these. Some don't have any.
1. sticking fingers in eyes
2. rocking back and forth
3. bad hygene
4. unsure of themselves
5. keeping head down
6. either very sheltered and/or overprotected or not really cared for
7. bad self-esteems or perfectionists (in other words, I'm blind, so I have to do this right to set an example and if I don't I'm worth crap)
8. either not well-educated or very well-educated with no job
9. obsessive at times
10. bad spellers
11. very chatty
12. very into books, especially scifi or fantacy
That's all I could think of at the moment.
Wow, that list sounds strange. "Bad hygene?" I guess I'm blind on a hot day.
How about 13. making lists.
Blindies come in all sorts of wrappings. Some fit your list nicely, others, not at all.
I think in sociology they call that generalization, and it's usually a big mistake to generalize about a community because half the time you are wrong and the other half doesn't matter.
But, it's interesting. Why not start a board topic something like "what makes a blind person a blind person?"
Bob
True, and that's why I started by saying that some are that way a little, some alot and some not at all. These are just things I've noticed over the years by listening and experiencing them. As for bad hygene, I've personally, um, smelled it on a few people, as I walked passed them. But I know others, like myself, who are clean fanatics. I also think there are differences between those with some usable vision and those without and with people who went blind later in life versus earlier. I went blind when I was two months old, but thanks to my mom, I've managed to avoid alot of these stereotypes, though I used to rock back and forth and stick my fingers in my eyes and I'm still not exactly obsessed with combing my hair.
This just proves my point. Many many blind people love to classify themselves, and I just don't see the point. Bob, I agree with your number 13! and I ask again, why does it matter? What is this huge drive to classify? Does it make us feel as though we fit in more? Or, conversly, do we do this to make sure that we know that we will never fit in?
FM
I don't think so. All my friends and family are sighted; the only reason for that is that sighted people make up a vast majority of the world's population, hence the odds are far more likely you're going to hook up with someone else that's sighted. To those of us that got desegregated in the 70's it's probably akin to the first blacks that moved to Chicago, where the parents didn't want them hanging out with 'their own kind' whatever that means.
All that being said, I have found this BBS Zone to be pretty open-minded, though I'm new here.
I actually tend to prefer sighted folks over blid ones. I don't know exactly why but that's generally how I am. I've had a few blind or partially sighted girlfriends, the latter more than the former, but my last few, including my x fiance, were sighted. I agree that we're more of a subculture than a culture, even if to some it might seem otherwise.
It isn't just among the blind this fierce need to classify. I'm on the outside and I know it. I have nothing to prove to anyone blind or seeing. The fact is it doesn't matter one way or another. To look at me you'd thikn I'm a conservative christian lady or at least well behind fashion wise. I really don't care, my clothes fit well and complement me so who cares. The dresses and headcovering are a choice I was lead to. I don't go in to this because it's way too hard to explain. I have no religious affiliation or church so that's out. I'm not a joiner so I'm not an nfb member either. Is there a group for blind nonconformists? I asked my husband for a wringer washer so I can't be lazy about getting the wash done, how's that for weird. A liberal hippie turn-of-the-century housewife is hard to find. There's only one of me that I know of. It gets lonely sometimes but I'd rather be myself than try to be someone else. If anyone's really interested I can explain the headcovering thing, or try to. Tiffany